Competitive Dota: Past, Present and Future by Virtus.NS

[olo)AsH]

а вся фигня из-за того, что ни одна из топ тим банально не может начать матч в 14-00, если он запланирован на 14-00... в 14-45 = будет начало при большой удаче....

и это матч запланированный за 2-3дня, а иногда НЕДЕЛЮ....

о чём тут говорить?

и админы такие же...

сидят на всё кладут болт, как на горизонте показался пиздец, тут же пизды всем кто под руку подвернулся....

вот такие пироги...

[xoxa]

да это целая эпопея начать игру, можно уже 2 раза поесть и все пиво выпить ж)) и ведь еще останется время что бы еще раз сбегать .

[Slim]

Пиздец половину поста арми прочел, дальше не хочется, основной смысл

не нравится не играйте, админы мим охуенны, фраза

  Цитата

You're ridiculing yourself by spitting on the feeding hand

убила 

текст о том что призовые мим очень стабильны и админы изо всех сил привлекают новых спонсоров не меньший пафос

Параллель между временными рамками и деньгами, которые выделяют спонсоры тоже фф, прям спонсоры отдав 400 $ будут очень разочарованы, если их детище продлится на неделю, арми пишет что мол с пд9 временные рамки будут сурово ограничены и если на пд 10 будут такие же убогие призы то имхо в том что он писал мало смысла...

В основном конечно он огибает суть пунктов Нса, приводя общие фразы...

Короче скоро узнаем подейчтвовало на него это или нет, я надеюсь что все таки он понял суть, небудет ни 1 нормальный админ говорить мол дада сирро говно вы правы -.- Вместо этого - блаблабла про то что они работают и людей без ошибок нет.

[hadwin]

  Цитата

СПор выигрывает не тот ,кто прав, а тот , кто умеет спорить.

Как Патриоту кажеться чтоАдмины МуМ ахуели.

Как Человеку мало что знающему об этом, Арми ООчень грамотно парировал и , по сути, пока он выиграл.

 

Второй уже пишут о "ловком парировании", как писал выше - что он грамотно парировал ? Тем что пропустил мимо ушей пол статьи ? Тем что заявил не админов дело искать хосты и т.д. ? А в чем их суть ? Их там целая свора. Если организовывают турнир - значит нужно организовывать, ты же не приходишь на asus со своим компом. Или тем что в случае с задержкой с данией - якобы спонсоры не давили, а тут хоп и неожиданно началась мошня с ломиками.

[GGak]

Поставьте себя на место каждого из участника спора и все мб станет ясно. Это лучший метод узнать почему человек говорит так, а не иначе. Да и вообще полезный прием в жизни, в общении.

[Army]

There is a difference of arranging ( finding ) a host/streamer, and allowing it/giving him the spot. There are actually rules set up, which give preference on the remaining spots in a DotA match in case of problems. It's still up to admins agreement if they are going to let the person participate in the match, or if they will consider admining the match with a higher priority than letting a streamer in.

 

The only reason I might sound aggressive is because this whole thing is a huge waste of time, with no outcome at all. Players and publicity are attacking directly my staff by calling them plancton or w/e words, with no real foundation nor insight on the work they are investing into. It's a public slander.

 

The rules in Prime Defending tournaments are not changed influenced by this post, neither are the current plans on the host issues based on this. There is a lot of work that the admin crew handles themselves, this topic just influenced that some of them lost motivation, stepped down or felt offended and disrespected. What did it change in the end? It achieved the exactly opposite of what it says it should achieve.

 

And to the other comments, if people feel like they should be threated seriously, then they should also behave in that way. I can neither understand russian posts, nor do I care about the offending posts. They simply show the level they like to debate on.

 

Han, I'm one of the owners of MYM, and the dota tournament crew runs under my supervision - I don't need to be mentioned on a list for people to know my status or my tasks - and as you can read from NS article, he knows my position, and so do other players / people in the community. That the article is on some 'unknown nation site', for that it has been promoted ( or spammed ) on other community pages and irc channels enough for me to put a stop to this 'ultimate wisdom'.

 

I have worked on the Prime Defending tournaments since the start, and I'm supervising them on a global level, and not on a match-to-match basis. So if my reply is not enough for you just because I'm not on a rules list, too bad. If people that you mentioned don't write replies on such topics, it's because I tell them not to, since I don't want them to waste time on that stuff as it leads to nowhere and they have more important things to do.

 

And as I mentioned before, if you personally don't want to see any reschedules for MYM, SK or EMG teams, then you also won't be able to expect them for your other favorite teams. What will be the consequence? The best teams dropping from finals - but at least everybody will have learned their lesson, right?

[Perezz]

бля арми опять настрочил -_-

[Magot]

  Цитата

And as I mentioned before, if you personally don't want to see any reschedules for MYM, SK or EMG teams, then you also won't be able to expect them for your other favorite teams. What will be the consequence? The best teams dropping from finals - but at least everybody will have learned their lesson, right?

right!

chatterbox btw

[prepareD]

Арми решил качеством английского заменить содержание всего поста.

[Mark]

Army

  Цитата

It's still up to admins agreement if they are going to let the person participate in the match, or if they will consider admining the match with a higher priority than letting a streamer in.

Tell me please, what is the main idea of MYM. And what's more important: several hundred thousand people enjoying the match between the world top teams or the possibility to "admin" the match (and btw, what does admin usually do in-game, huh? Making sure that players won't pool or what? Or maybe maphack? You know, top teams cannot win without hacks)

 

  Цитата

I have worked on the Prime Defending tournaments since the start, and I'm supervising them on a global level, and not on a match-to-match basis.

1. You do not supervise the tour on a match-to-match basis

2. There are dozens of problems in almost every match (okey, okey, in some matches) played on the tour

3. Other admins seem to ignore such problems (If you wanna play, search for the host, right?)

4. You tell other admins not to reply to this article because you don't want to waste their time

5. The problem persists. And it always will.

 

 

Also some general things:

Prizes for prime defending.

  Цитата

- 150$ Prizemoney

- 5 x Raptor Gaming M2 Mouse

- 5 x MYM posters (Green) (WOW!!!)

- 5 x 6 months MYM Lounge access

  Цитата

250$ Prizemoney

5x Sennheiser PC 161

5x 3 Months CLUB MYM Accounts

  Цитата

350$ Prizemoney

5 x Sennheiser PC 161

5 x 3 Months CLUB MYM Accounts

5 x MYM profile PriDe winner icons

  Цитата

- 400$ Prizemoney

- 5 x Sennheiser PC 161

- 5 x 3 Months CLUB MYM Accounts

- 5x MYM profile PriDe winner icons

  Цитата

- 400$ Prizemoney

- 5 x Sennheiser PC 161

- 5 x 3 Months CLUB MYM Accounts

- 5x MYM profile PriDe winner icons

  Цитата

- 400$ Prizemoney

- 5 x Sennheiser PC 161

- 5 x 3 Months CLUB MYM Accounts

- 5x MYM profile PriDe winner icons

Looking at the last 3 prizelists I get it what you call "making tournament more stable" and "hopefully attracting bigger sponsors to invest into higher prize purses".

 

 

  Цитата

And to the other comments, if people feel like they should be threated seriously, then they should also behave in that way. I can neither understand russian posts, nor do I care about the offending posts. They simply show the level they like to debate on.

Nothing interesting in the comments in Russian.

 

offtop: Army, people are interested if you are a native english speaker.

[VisarkA]

  Цитата

должен отметить что арми очень четко поовнил нса по всем пунктам

хотя нска скажет какую-нить грубость

но ламокомп абсолютно прав...

жаль мало русских могут абсолютно правильно перевести то, что он написал 

[Mark]

  Цитата

  Цитата

должен отметить что арми очень четко поовнил нса по всем пунктам

хотя нска скажет какую-нить грубость

но ламокомп абсолютно прав...

жаль мало русских могут абсолютно правильно перевести то, что он написал 

[Mathlinker]

:read: Gj Army.

[Army]

  Цитата

Army

  Цитата

It's still up to admins agreement if they are going to let the person participate in the match, or if they will consider admining the match with a higher priority than letting a streamer in.

Tell me please, what is the main idea of MYM. And what's more important: several hundred thousand people enjoying the match between the world top teams or the possibility to "admin" the match (and btw, what does admin usually do in-game, huh? Making sure that players won't pool or what? Or maybe maphack? You know, top teams cannot win without hacks)

Oh there would be a difference if it would be several hundreds of thousands of people watching the match live - but right now it's about 500-600. So what is more important? Somebody who makes sure the match is played correctly, that saves are done at the right times, that the teams are not bending rules ( f.e. after save/regame ), that there is immediate help for them in case something occurs - instead of a cancelled match and a big protestwave from one or another country.

 

Especially when the replay is available afterwards for thousands of people. Let's not forget that the streams have a big tendency to crash.

 

So what is the priority here? It's the admins decision what his priority is. So if you have to wait one hour to download the replay, and for that actually have a replay and a match that was played fair and square - then so be it.

 

  Цитата

  Цитата

I have worked on the Prime Defending tournaments since the start, and I'm supervising them on a global level, and not on a match-to-match basis.

1. You do not supervise the tour on a match-to-match basis

2. There are dozens of problems in almost every match (okey, okey, in some matches) played on the tour

3. Other admins seem to ignore such problems (If you wanna play, search for the host, right?)

4. You tell other admins not to reply to this article because you don't want to waste their time

5. The problem persists. And it always will.

By saying that I'm not supervising it on a match-to-match basis, that means that I'm not helping with every little problem that people come up with. Important issues are debated crew internally.

 

That there are problems, well that's people mostly not caring to read the rules, or making a too big fuss out of small things. Those 'problems' will always persist. There will always be teams which do not read/care about/or follow the rules - in any tournament in the world. And yes host search is the teams problem at this point, as it is in any other game.

 

The other admins are currently setting up a new Prime Defending edition with connection into PDL, so yes, they have better things to do in my world.

 

  Цитата

Also some general things:

Prizes for prime defending.

  Цитата

- 150$ Prizemoney

- 5 x Raptor Gaming M2 Mouse

- 5 x MYM posters (Green) (WOW!!!)

- 5 x 6 months MYM Lounge access

  Цитата

250$ Prizemoney

5x Sennheiser PC 161

5x 3 Months CLUB MYM Accounts

  Цитата

350$ Prizemoney

5 x Sennheiser PC 161

5 x 3 Months CLUB MYM Accounts

5 x MYM profile PriDe winner icons

  Цитата

- 400$ Prizemoney

- 5 x Sennheiser PC 161

- 5 x 3 Months CLUB MYM Accounts

- 5x MYM profile PriDe winner icons

  Цитата

- 400$ Prizemoney

- 5 x Sennheiser PC 161

- 5 x 3 Months CLUB MYM Accounts

- 5x MYM profile PriDe winner icons

  Цитата

- 400$ Prizemoney

- 5 x Sennheiser PC 161

- 5 x 3 Months CLUB MYM Accounts

- 5x MYM profile PriDe winner icons

Looking at the last 3 prizelists I get it what you call "making tournament more stable" and "hopefully attracting bigger sponsors to invest into higher prize purses".

Показать больше  

Prizes went steadily up, especially considering that PDL offers now 3500USD in total, while actually PD ( which acts as qualifier ) is still running on with prizemoney. Prime Nations also has money prizes. We're putting in more and more money into dota tournaments, steadily. And we're holding as many in a short frame as possible. As I wrote before, we're no quick fly, and we're planing on keeping that going on for quite some time. And what's wrong with stacking up prizes with goods from MYM? We're trying to put in as much as we can - who else is there that invests so much time and ressources into DotA? Support us. If you want things to run better, invest your time, sign up for an admin task, influence the way things go by acting.

 

  Цитата

  Цитата

And to the other comments, if people feel like they should be threated seriously, then they should also behave in that way. I can neither understand russian posts, nor do I care about the offending posts. They simply show the level they like to debate on.

Nothing interesting in the comments in Russian.

 

offtop: Army, people are interested if you are a native english speaker.

Nope.

[Hunter]

  Цитата

должен отметить что арми очень четко поовнил нса по всем пунктам

не по всем, ту хуйню, которую он написал про ситуации с ломиками смешно читать - мы не ждали, потому что турнир затянулся, но бля они поступили по разному в 2ух одинаковых случаях, причём оба решения против одной команды, хотя то, что одно решение является правильным исключает то, что 2ое является правильным, а тут бля оба правильных

бтв

  Цитата

Админ управляет турниром и следит, чтобы оно было справедливым, если у Вас есть с ним личные проблемы говорите это ему лично.Если админ говорит, что игра будет без стримера или он должен наблюдать игру- пусть будет так- он управляет турниром.

И причем тут "Либо Вы выполняете это либо я Вас кикну?"

Дота работает на движке WC3 и ограничена 2 слотами для зрителей, которые могут выбираться хостом или другим админом (или админом-стримером/админом-хостом).Если Вы не можете прилично разговаривать с админами или начинать игру без них- это Ваши проблемы.

Легко сказать "Он не разрешил нашему стримить", но кто сказал ему не разрешено стримить? Кто, как не игрок угрожая админу используя хоста, может регулировать игру? Вы говорите о недопустимом поведении, но для меня Ваше поведение недопустимо.

я бы сказал, что бля давайте мы зарегим 300 фейк тим и пусть он смотрит каждую игру, как хотел смотреть другие игры и потом подумает чё делать ему - дальше выёбыватся или смотреть каждый турнир по 300 игр только за 1ый тур

 

и хан норм расписал

короче нихуя арми не прав, это называется - мы делаем как нам хочется и остальное не ебёт

[Mark]

Well, Army, I think that some of the things you say make sense but:

1. There are problems that must be solved by the admin crew (host! well, what if two teams can't get to an agreement about neutral host? Defloss for both is not a solution; streaming! what if the game was reloaded? as far as i know, with ggtv you may save/view it)

2. Some of the admin decisions cannot be explained from any point of view (lomiki!)

3. Stuff like

  Цитата

I dunno what m3rcy is responsible for but I'm absolutely sure what ssserenity does - Nothing. During the course of tour I asked him about various stuff more than 10 times. Every time he gave me just-another-link-to-the-rule-"you will find it here for sure!" or sent to sirro "sry i am too small to answer such a question".

 

I think we all need another big ns post which will help us progress further in this discussion.

//---

  Цитата

Nope.

I'm jealous of ur english, lawl.

[S c]

хз, толку поднимать тему за ломиков? если он уже съехал. Просто положить бы хуй на мумов, но бля кому деньги помешают?

[soulmate]

  Цитата

Army:

Please tell me any other successful tournaments in the world, which provide money prizes to nearly anything on a regular basis in a mod of some game?

 

It is ASUS lan party that takes place in Moscow for about 3 years. Now day prices are 2500USD for first place in 5vs5 DOTA. So turns out that your word are ridiculous not NS’s ones.

 

  Цитата

Army:

You're ridiculing yourself by spitting on the feeding hand, and are showing a total lack of appreciation of what people are putting into DotA tournaments.

 

Think twice next time when you write such things or someone can die from such ROFL and you can’t sleep at night. Do you really think that you provide something people can’t live without? And you possibly think players should be thankful for the rest of their lives as a dog is thankful for a meat bone.

 

  Цитата

Army:

If the tournaments take too much of your precious time ( which actually is being held to the minimum possible by seeding teams like yours ), then don't play in it.

If the prize doesn't suit you, stop playing in the tournaments.

 

Is it example of constructive communication by Army? Isn't a balance between money and time an option?

 

  Цитата

Army:

Did you know that a team ( let's call them team A ), didn't report their game in time as any of the other 600+ teams could ( send an email to the administration ), nor did they provide any screenshots or replays, and posted the result hidden somewhere on a comment page?

In clear words : they did not report the result correctly. Why would now team A get an advantage over team B, C and D who did the same? Maybe next time everybody should report their games on prodota.ru and admins will take the blame cause an 'email was lost', whereas no email has been deleted from the gmail accounts since its creation. ( why would anybody delete emailreports? ). Team A even admitted that they didn't send an email.

 

I am curious of how admins decided to give deff loss to WG and not to their opponent? Or they reported?

 

  Цитата

Army:

There were clear reasons behind those actions, and one of them to some certain degree was that scandals were not needed about reporting of results. And that's what you are making it actually right now,

you're making a point out of nothing,

as the team advanced and nothing happened to them.

 

Bet it was great luck for them. And story with Lomiki proves this.

 

  Цитата

Army:

With every ongoing Pride we're working on improving the tournament, with the creation of a professional system, with setting unbendable schedules, with creating a tougher environment which makes the best teams prove themselves, with creating competitions on a regular basis we're striving to go towards professionalism, targetting a bigger audience and hopefully attracting bigger sponsors to invest into higher prize purses.

 

Be honest please. You are dreaming for bigger sponsors not less than teams for better prizes. Or you are doing it for fun?

 

  Цитата

Army:

Congratulations on your participation in an offline tournament which pays out a higher prize purse. The issue of few teams participating in other tournaments during Prime Defendings happens everytime. However it does not mean that the tournament can be delayed because teams take other tournaments with higher priority. You can't have it all.

 

You tried to add a bit more value to your tournament and failed. You put teams into strict frames they could not fit and you get what you want – best team in the world forfeited the LB final match in your precious tournament. Ahahahahahah, looks like the most wisest decision! It will without any doubts help to improve your championship!

 

  Цитата

NS:

On a side note: do you know for how long Denmark had delayed game with Russia during the MyM Nations Winners Finals?

 

Two days. Those two days I was begging Sirro for and those two days I couldn't have. Sirro would gladfully give Denmark even more time. Fortunately, Maelk is a man of honour and understands that it looked like mockery.

  Цитата

Army:

How many times did we have the situation with mostly russia, VP, Denmark, MYM, etc. that we had to delay games in the finals for sometimes even over a week? What kind of double standards are you talking here about?

 

Are you kidding, Army??? There was only about a weak between LB final of PRIDE and final of Nations. And two opposite decisions were made. First one not in VP’s(Russian team) turn and second not in Russia National Team’s turn. Ok… I know! Possibly “double standards” means different in the city you live in!!! The only explanation, as far as I see…. Ah No!! Got second!! You treat all Russian team equal!!! Same decisions for them!

And one more thing! ASUS is played all day long and teams were playing the whole day. Forcing them to play one more game is very nice move from admins!

 

 

  Цитата

NS:

So, we had found the neutral host (I think I have already mentioned what happens if you ask admins to search for host). Sirro came when we were in process of picking heroes. We remember that Sirro is always eating spikes in every game thus ruining the match and sometimes whole GGTV translation.

 

Then I asked him a question: "Do you lag in games coz you are streaming or you will lag in any case?" He answered that streaming was the reason.

 

With such decision Sirro made impossible for stream to happen. Even if they restarted with Sirro as streamer it could ruin final game due to spikes he have. And he was against some one else as a streamer. So let us think what can an admin do during the game? Is it a football game where a consequent rule breaks observed??? Is there need for his presence during the game? NO! Only because he is admin! And he does care that he can spoil game by his presence! As a result there is no stream for observers of these tournament… one more spoiled final in a row! VERY GJ!

  Цитата

Sirro:

"RUSSIAN WANTS NO STREAM, KKKKK" thingie.

"GO RE WITH STREAMER NP".

Looks like mockery, isn’t it? Restart after 10 minutes played and some kills done. Kinda childish behavior for a head admin. You can protect him but you cannot say he is totally right otherwise you spit at people who play your tournament.

 

 

 

 

  Цитата

Army:

What would happen without that ruling? Players could then temporarily leave their teams during playoffs, to boost their nations lineup for the finals for example. Fair, isn't it?

Yes you are right! But are you blind? Ok one more example. Player lives team his prime team at the beginning of the Nations tournament. So now he can play as a fourth player in national team. Next thing he do is joining to his prime team back after Nation starts. Fair, isn't it? Your rules allow this.

  Цитата

Army:

Prime Defending is unfortunately not a local offline tournament with an easy to define target group. It is an online tournament reaching on a global scale in a fresh game in a specific hardcore target audience ( forget neutral spectators ). If you can get the sponsors that are interested in promoting their products in east europe, southeast asia, australia, south america, etc. so basically worldwide all at once, then ask them how much they would pay for it before they slam the door in front of your nose.

 

Let’s get back to ASUS. Sponsors are ASUS, INTEL and so on… is it unknowns in your state?

 

These are only few thing that are very funny in your reply.

 

Army, please get me right. We all appreciate thing your crew do but voluntary base of work they do is not an excuse for misjudges and strange decisions.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark]

soulmate

Не оффенсь зря 

[Гость Man1ak]

  Цитата

Oh there would be a difference if it would be several hundreds of thousands of people watching the match live - but right now it's about 500-600.

U're wrong. Its about 2000-2500 users watching game live, and this number keeps rising.

 

  Цитата

It is ASUS lan party that takes place in Moscow for about 3 years. Now day prices are 2500USD for first place in 5vs5 DOTA. So turns out that your word are ridiculous not NS’s ones.

Not 3 years, but 2. There were 7 tourneys, Prize fund(sum) was different: from 1500$ to 10000$.

 

  Цитата

I'm jealous of ur english, lawl.

My kung-fu is better!